this document may also be accessed at:

ftp://quixot.rug.ac.be/MP%26G_11H.dbh%21/antiorp/sentimentz_null-binbuf0+2.html



\\\\\   note : select commentary originating on max-l as related to
               this debate has been selected for the nettime book
               [interesting - personally am glad views of this list
               will be made ultra public]

               this is a reminder that max-l is a public mailing list
               hosted by an university existing in a democracy
               composed of all humanz for all humanz.
               humanzsukc++ being 1 statement which
               everyone is yet to understand [paradoxically so]
-

-

- letter [. forwarded to a number of digital discussion groups . magazines .]

-

-



from : =cw4t7abs ()
  to : Chris Murtagh (max list owner)  via #P hidden connect 3 1 4 0;



>Date:    Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:43:31 -0400
>From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc <chris.murtagh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: The unfortunate (LAST) antiorp response


>Subject: Re: The unfortunate (LAST) antiorp response

                       states  one

>Ok, this debate is getting childish,

states  one  Chris Murtagh.


>Ok, this debate is getting childish,

an attempt to discredit
and halt the democratic process


>and many people are over-reacting.

speculation


>and many people are over-reacting.

[`many`. `majority`. `most` - these are words
 which have gained the utmost importance in this
 debate |investigation ]


>and many people are over-reacting.

if you are authorized to qualify other people reactions as `over reactions`
you are in fact stating that the `secret majority` whose wishes
you repeatedly claim to represent is in fact `over reacting`


>I've listened to MANY email messages, and I acted
>according to the MAJORITY of them.


[`many`. `majority`. `most` - these are words
 which have gained the utmost importance in this
 debate |investigation ]


>I've listened to MANY email messages, and I acted
>according to the MAJORITY of them.

[have decided to indulge your majority fantasy]


_ please |||| release this data _


repetition teaches:


_ please |||| this data release _



my request for this data
has been
and is   now         still
         currently + presently
refused



repetition teaches:


_ please |||| release this data _



>I live in a democracy,

 we  - live in a democracy


>to me

    .


>this means
>that the majority determines how, where, what, when and why things will
>happen.

your letter and actions are grave indication
you may not yet understand the concepts and
implications of these concepts.

[data logged]



>I live in a democracy,

 we - live - in a democracy


>to me this means
>that the majority determines how, where, what, when and why things will
>happen.

publicly. openly.
within the limits and scope of law.
you and the `secret majority` _have and are still_acting secretly


>This means that if the majority votes against me,

there has not been a democratic vote.  [can there be an undemocratic vote _?]


>This means that if the majority votes against me,

there has not been a democratic vote.
there has been only :  a `secret + clandestine vote`

not only was _not everyone_ informed of the `secret + clandestine vote`
-
even the factual data is _still_ being kept `secret`,
while the |actual majority| is being asked by the
`secret majority` to simply accept the results of this `secret ballot`


this is 1998.

this is 1998.

this is 1998.

and _this is_ a democracy


repetition teaches:


_ please |||| release this data _                        |
                                                          |
     _ please |||| release this data _
                                                      |  | |
          _ please |||| release this data _         |re : leasz
                                                      |  | |
             _ please |||| release this data _
                                                          |
                   _ please |||| release this data _     |


>I have to accept
>it.

one  _can not_  accept the results of `your secret` data as

_you_ have _refused_ to make this data _available_


to   _accept this data without verification is purely : unscientific



\\\\

you + the `secret majority` have held a secret vote - the results of which
_you_ refuse to make public.

you + the `secret majority` have held a secret vote without publicly
announcing you were holding a secret vote [which makes it a _secretive_
vote] an act - immoral . unconstitutional . discriminatory \+\ clearly
undemocratic.

_you_ have based your decision on this `secret[ive] vote`

you refuse to honor requests for a written letter stating the reason for
your public action based on a `secret[ive] vote`.

once those excluded from the `secret[ive] majority`
were finally informed of _your_ decision based on `clandestine digital data`
and stated their opinions - publicly - in the utmost democratic way -
you have qualified their reactions as `over reactions` in an attempt to
discredit
and halt the democratic process

- the very democratic process which _you claim_ as your guiding principle
thereby discrediting your understanding of the democratic concept
and its implications for the modern citizen in the bit society.


you contend you were left no choice while still
to this date
you are making choices;
you are making choices
not for yourself only - but for other life forms as well
- while you continue to classify _your actions_ as in the interest of the
`secret[ive] majority`.


|0| where is this majority you are speaking of ?
|1| who is this majority you are speaking of ?
|3| why is this a `secret[ive] majority` ?
|6| why are _you_ hiding and withholding this `secret[ive] majority` ?


these are questions which need  to be answered.


repetition teaches :


these are questions which need  to be answered.


>If you cannot accept this, then I'm sorry, we do not have the common
>ground on which to actually have a logical, philosophical debate on this
>subject.

an attempt to discredit
and halt the democratic process

[logged]




\\\ why is this a `secret majority` ?

    can a secret majority exist +?


  - i submit that your `secret majority`
    is not in _the majority_

    and that your decision is flawed.

    i ask that you reinstate my subscription to the max-l
    hosted by mcgill university



=cw4t7abs «» 1998. ad




\\\\

data -

>From: <a9ff@xxxxxxxx>, on 10/8/98 5:24 AM:
>>would also like to request access to the last 6months of max digest.
>
>http://www2.cybernex.net/~jonwitte/max/welcome.html

is this the only archive for the max list +?


>>in addition would like to request access to the letters received from
>>what you refer to as "the majority of the people" in your post
>>of Tue, 6 Oct 1998 to max-l.
>
> I'm sorry, but I didn't keep most of these letters

are you suggesting that `most`
evidence which you have utilized  does not exist +?

>(they span over almost
>2 years),

these aren't the ones being discussed by you in your Tue, 6 Oct 1998 letter
to max-l .

> nor do I send privately sent email out to third parties without
>their consent.

does not qualify as private email.
it was sent to you as administrator of a list.
and utilized by you as such to terminate a subscription.

>I don't see why you insist on putting me through this.

this is 1998
max-l is hosted by an [McGill] university
max-l is an art related forum
this is 1998

> I'm sorry, but you will get no sympathy from me anymore.

it is not sympathy which is being discussed.

this is 1998
max-l is hosted by an [McGill] university
max-l is an art related forum
this is 1998

> This list is only
>hosted by McGill,

critical

>but moderated/maintained by me.

not critical

>If you have any problems
>with the decision of your expulsion, they are with me.

+

>I don't see why you insist on putting me through this.

= 25th^n illogical sequence.




as you have refused to honor my request for a written letter

[ > Don't expect a written letter either, it is not worth my time nor the
  > $0.72 postage ]

stating the reason for your decision -
have printed your previous letter stating the reason
for my removal from the list - which is in turn reason for reposting my request:

`in addition would like to request access to the letters received from
what you refer to as "the majority of the people" in your post
of Tue, 6 Oct 1998 to max-l`


thank you.



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